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  • Gsimenas
    Gsimenas closed this thread because:
    Arc pages done
    20:58, September 9, 2014

    Our current system of having arc content on VR pages is... not really convenient. It makes the already big pages look even bigger and messier. As C9 has already suggested, I believe that we should get actual arc pages up and use those as hubs. For starters, instead of doing an actual chronology for the arcs, we could just do a synopsis for starters and have all the links up. Then, eventually, if we have some free dedicated editors, we could use the pages for a summary of the entire arc.

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    • Actually, what needed is basically a synopsis...then it could be setup...

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    • De-cram the arc pages into sparse synopsi of each volume, while redirecting to the Volume itself.

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    • I've created a prototype page Phantom Bullet Arc. What do you guys think? The template could use some aesthetic changes and we could make an arc infobox, but this is the kind of design I imagine to make for all four arcs.

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    • It's very generic, but it works.

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    • Well, what do you advise to reduce the genericalness?

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    • I think a wiki-wide implementation of it should be made as soon as possible.

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    • If people like the template navbar version and don't have anything important to suggest for the pages AND somebody makes the rest of the bars if we're going to use them, we can implement this change for the rest of the hubs. Though, I'm not sure what to do with the ALO side stories, seeing as they're not really part of any arc.

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    • do a masterpage for side stories.

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    • I guess that is a possibility, but if side stories get turned into novels what should we classify them as, take for example the web versions of volume 2 and other stories that got included in volume 8. well I guess we could do an overlap type thing, so it is probably a non-issue. That aside isn't there a list in the dropdown menu of creator publications though it is just a category though.

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    • Dim, opinion on the prototype page?

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    • Gsimenas
      Gsimenas removed this reply because:
      Dang, stupid wikia double posting...
      20:41, July 14, 2014
      This reply has been removed
    • has it already been made? If not why not make it on the category page?

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    • Have you bothered to look through the replies above? I said that I have a prototype up. Do you think that by saying "I've created a prototype page" I meant that I created it in my head? -_-

      The category page thing is silly, as the category is only used on several pages and it makes it hard to find the hub.

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    • I say that since it can be found on the drop down menu, otherwise we will need to re-link the navigation bar which is a pain for same name pages. finding it won't be too hard since it is already on the navigation bar.

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    • Dim, WHY do you think that I insist on using redirects? I just turned the redirect into a page and now every Phantom Bullet Arc mention links to the new arc page (even the wiki navigation bar). So we don't have to make any adjustments, just decide whether or not we're keeping this page, adjusting and then keeping it or dropping it.

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    • I thought you were talking about the side story main page.

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    • Someone obviously hasn't been reading the main topic... The side story main page is a different issue, the main issue on this topic are the pages for the arcs. I want opinions on the prototype before I begin to implement the same design for the other arcs as well.

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    • I was responding to the latest response, cause that is what I usually do when you ask me to look at a topic, and go backwards from there if I can't figure it out from context.

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    • btw, if we are to make a summary section in arc pagae, should parts about introduction should also summarise in summary?

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    • Hmmm, don't know... the introduction is basically made as a way of introducing the story to interest the reader in continuing with the actual reading.

      Anyway, let's first get the basic pages up. For that, I want opinions on:

      • The navbar. Do we want all the navbars to look like the one IM created or should we standardise it to match the other navbars?
      • Does the page need an infobox (for a more formal look)?
      • General opinion about the page (the full synopsis would come later when we actually have someone who wants to do one properly). If there are any concerns, speak now so that we can solve them before we continue with the project further.

      Also... should the hub be below or above the full synopsis? I don't believe people will actually look for it if we have a long summary posted...

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    • As the PBArc Navbox is currently formatted as deeply integrated into part of the page, i believe it can be treated as a general template with table layout instead of a usual navbox template. But are we to add those arc navigation templates to other related pages?

      And I think a template formatted like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Islam but in a much simpler fashion could work in replacing Infobox.

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    • I plan to only have them on the hub pages to use as hubs for everything related to the arc, like the VR pages were used so far for the same goal.

      Either way, I still don't really like the current formatting of the arc template. I guess making it have collapsibles for each category would be an improvement.

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    • Collapsible?

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    • Firstly, too many replies to read through, I blame Dim.

      Also, I think that prototype needs an infobox Gsi, it doesn't look right without an infobox.

      Also in terms of content, do we want a list of main characters? Do we wanna say what LNs, manga volumes, anime episodes/seasons are set in that arc? I haven't made a page in a while so I dunno, but there are some of my suggestions

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    • Whether an infobox was needed or not was one of my questions for the prototype. The problem is, I don't really know what to include in the infobox.

      As for content, that's what the hub section is meant for.

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    • If we are doing one for every arc probably should consider it but how will we handle the side storie volume and side stories in general?

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    • Can we please handle one problem at a time? Or both at the same time instead of switching to new problems and ignoring the unsolved ones?

      As for side stories, the only problem is with those side stories that take place in-between arcs. Those side stories that take place withing the timespan of a main arc could just be covered on the relevant arc pages.

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    • Alright, so we can include "Area" in Aincrad and maybe stick Caliber as its own mini-arc. (depending on the anime adaptation)

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    • Well, both Caliber and MR are actually arcless side stories, so that's a bit problematic.

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    • Well, arc doesn't mean just 2 volumes+, MR can definitely be considered an arc, Caliber would be stretching it but it has multiple divisions of story but it is complete in its form, so we could say it is an arc with anime screenshot accompanyment to back up the page.

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    • Problem is, Reki doesn't consider them to be arcs. He calls Phantom Bullet as the 3rd arc and Ali as the 4th.

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    • PB is the 3rd episode and PA is the 4th episode. not arc.

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    • Yeah, Reki calls it episodes, but that usually refers to TV or radio programs

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    • Very well, Reki's word is law usually. there is an alternative from Arc pages we create a sub category called story pages for the smaller stories like MR and Caliber. (Or we just substitute the name Arc Pages with Story pages, sounds less cool and rolls off the tongue less but if it works it works)

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    • They could be categorized into New ALO, but the real problem is The Celeste Fairy and Tragical story on VRMMO development and Ceramic Heart and Salvia.

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    • Yeah.... side stories = mess.

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    • Well why not just knock out the major arcs first and then revisit the issue again after we have something to work off.

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    • Isn't that why I suggested several replies above?.... You just enjoy changing the topic....

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    • True, I'm sorry I thought we could clarify everything in one go, didn't know that Reki said MR wasn't an arc.

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    • How about we create a separate one and label it side stories.... I mean that seems like the easiest way

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    • C9 suggested just doing a side story main page.

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    • Yeah, something like that is probably the easiest solution

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    • Thread died again... I'll ask again...

      • Do we want to use the navbar and if so, is the current version fine or should we make it more like our other navbars.
      • If we do navbars, are we just linking the category, or listing every single character/monster/etc.?
      • I need an infobox for these.
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      • current version seem fine
      • current category link should probably be good enough
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    • Because I can't get TUSF to get out of his lazy mode, I've created an infobox myself. Opinions?

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    • that's good, just the page need some update...then could it make its official launch?

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    • What kind of update?

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    • like some more links should be added to the navbar down below

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    • More specifically?

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    • well, i added thosew sii ep7-10 to it so nvm


      t.f. can it officially release?

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    • Updating the navbar is something that will have to be done regularly, seeing as we create new pages now and then and the anime is still ongoing.

      Anyway, since there doesn't seem to be anymore concerns, I'll get started on the other arcs.

      And for Caliber and MR, are we going to create a side story main page, or give them an arc page each and just call them "side arcs" unofficially? Or we could just add the hub to the respective volume page.

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    • New ALO Arc? Or should we wait for 2 more months to see how the official web name those upcoming episodes?

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    • Well, we do need a place to store the hub until then.

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    • The problem I noticed on the German side. I have two possible solutions.

      • A general story arc page with links to publications, like de:Handlung But this is still a beta!
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    • @TRon69 our original structure is like this: ALfheim Online

      And our current structure is: Gun Gale Online plus Phantom Bullet Arc

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    • This is good!

      Phantom Bullet Arc is approximately the same as de:Sword Art Online II: Phantom Bullet.

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    • Just one problem for the German page:

      The "II" of Sword Art Online II only apply to anime phantom bullet, not the manga/novel version.

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    • I've been thinking about this. I will probably change.

      Edit:

      I only have to think again, how I rename the pages. A nice short word, such "Arc" we do not have in German. That means "Handlungsstrang" or "Handlungsbogen". So I'll probably translate that "Handlung" (plot).

      Does anyone have a better idea?

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    • Alicization arc page published.

      Anyway, as C9 has mentioned, using anime seasons in the name is bad practise, since the series is not just an anime. If you don't have a short word like "arc", then why don't you just omit it and call the pages as "Phantom Bullet", "Kaliber" etc. and use the German word for arc in the leading paragraph?

      And our designs aren't that similar. 1) We use an "introduction" section to just give a premise for the arc for the moment, while you have a short "plot" section which covers the whole arc in a few sentences. 2) We don't give an overload of images. We just use one picture per page, preferably, an image that introduces the arc, like for Phantom Bullet and Alicization. 3) We use a navbar for more aesthetic links. Your version is more similar to our old version which we are replacing with a new standard, except that it only links media, instead of everything related to the arc.

      Anyway, what are we going to do about the side stories for the time being? We still have to store the hub for them somewhere.

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      • Mother's Rosario - New ALo Arc?
      • Caliber - New ALO Arc?
      • The Celeste Fairy - FD Arc?
      • VRMMO Development Tragedy - throw it away? The Seed Nexus Arc?
      • Ceramic Heart - New ALO Arc?
      • Salvia - FD Arc?
      • There is but one ultimate way - Ali arc?

      edit: add an item

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    • Gsimenas wrote:... why don't you just omit it and call the pages as "Phantom Bullet", "Kaliber" etc. and use the German word for arc in the leading paragraph?...

      It works with all, except for Aincrad. Regardless, I differ on your topic. :-)

      B2T

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    • shouldn't we just go by what the Arc is, like LN way, so Aincrad, Fairy Dance, Phantom Bullet, Mothers Rosario, Caliber, Alicization?

      or is that what we've decided, it's difficult to tell seeing there's different comments...

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    • @Wraiyf Problems: 1) MR and Caliber aren't regarded as arcs, since PB is arc 3 and Ali is arc 4. We could just unofficially refer to them as "side arcs", but there's a bigger problem: 2) There are stories that don't have an arc (see C9's list).

      @C9 Technically, Celeste still fits in the FD arc timeline, but does Salvia really take place during the arc?

      @Tron Either make Aincrad the only exception by having it as Aincrad (Handlungsstrang) or you'll have to think of some other way, since I don't have any other ideas.

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    • the aincrad can actually be named as "floating city aincrad"

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    • well we can't really make up an Arc name though, like New ALO Arc is just an arc, and pretty much no-one would get it (most fans anime/novel wise) except for us, that's why I was thinking going by the LN titles, as it would make it easier, as most fans would understand the arc's that way (timeline wise)

      yeah I saw the list, we should just place them in the arcs that are closer to their dates.

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    • "Floating castle" is how its refered to, not "floating city".

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    • if we go by LN title then that is early and late..

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    • For Caliber and MR, we could just post the hub on volume 7 and 8 for the time being. If the stories are given some kind of special name, we could adjust it later on.

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      • Mother's Rosario - LN page.
      • Caliber - LN page.
      • The Celeste Fairy - FD Arc?
      • VRMMO Development Tragedy - throw it away? The Seed Nexus Arc?
      • Ceramic Heart - New ALO Arc?
      • Salvia - FD Arc?
      • There is but one ultimate way - Ali arc?
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      • Celeste Fairy takes places in April, FD ends in May if I recall correctly, so we can treat it as being part of the arc.
      • Salvia should take part during FD, since Kazuto only started practising kendo after the FD arc began. 
      • VRMMO dev. tragedy and Ceramic Heart take place in between arcs. Hmmm... add a navbar on their own pages?
      • There is but one ultimate way takes place after the Ali arc has ended. If so, same as above.
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    • You know we don't need to classify each story into an arc some can just be considered filler or free side stories.

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    • a page titled as Side Stories ?

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    • Why in the title write what it is? Only the name and on the page pointing out that it's a side story or arc.

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    • @Dim Do you want to have an arc-like page for EVERY story that can't be attached to a main arc?

      Anyway, the simplest solution would be to turn the specific side story pages into hubs. The only exceptions would be MR and Caliber, since Caliber doesn't really have its own page, while if Caliber has a page of its own, we'd also need to make a page for MR, since it is an even longer story.

      Edit: I've finished arc pages for the four main arcs. x.x

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    • It is not harmful if the side stories have their own pages.

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    • 2 pages for each side story? That's a lot of junk pages.

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    • Yes and no. Example Caliber: de:Kaliber Only publications and short plot. This is more for navigation.

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    • TRon69-SAO wrote:
      Why in the title write what it is? Only the name and on the page pointing out that it's a side story or arc.

      just like wikipedia...sometime it is needed...as for example, GGO is the name of an episode and at the same time also a vrmmo's name. Mother's Rosario is at the same time a novel volume name, arc name, and sword skill name.

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    • @Tron Caliber has quite a bit of content and doesn't actually have its own page. Stories like VRMMO development tragedy are short, have their own page anyway and making two pages for them is just making junk pages.

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    • I speak only from the story arc/side storys. Anime episodes have "Episode 00 - Name" light novel have "Light Novel - Name" in the title. Or am I wrong?

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    • On this wiki, we use a standard naming for LNs and episodes. All LNs are titles as "Sword Art Online Light Novel Volume XX" while episodes are titles "Sword Art Online Episode XX" pr "Sword Art Online II Episode XX", since title translations tend to change. E.g. Episode 5 was first titled as "A Crime Withing the Walls", now it's called "Murder in the Save Zone". And either way, when you type "GGO" in the seach field, you're not going to see the episode pop up unless you either have "GGO" at the very beginning of the title or if you use redirects.

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    • I see the problem but I have no perfect solution. Any compromise you have to take.

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    • @Above, I meant that there is no need for arc pages for side stories, they can just be that side stories, they don't have to be included in the overall arcs of SAO series.

      Arc pages in my opinion should cover a whole and complete story and not try to include more then that otherwise it is chronologically confusing.

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    • That's kind of why I recommended posting a hub to all the pages related to the story on the side story's page. The only problem would be MR and Caliber.

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    • I know, those are gray areas that have a hard time classifying, I honestly got nothing for it.

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    • That's not a problem. Caliber and MR you treat just like an arc. I bet that will be treated in the anime so. I guess episode 11-24.

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    • PB will obviously take until at least episode 12 or 13.  Caliber may get two or three episodes, MR could get around 6/7 episodes.

      Anyway, we're going off topic. Can we please just decide what are we going to do with the side stories? Are we going to make a special page for caliber and/or MR? Or are we going to use the volume pages for their hubs?

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    • As written above. I would give Caliber and MR a special page and use the volume pages for the other small side stories.

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    • in term of web serialization, MR is of same status as four days or R-N R, and caaliber is of same status as aria the starless night.

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    • Well, in the published version, Caliber has the same status as Reindeer, while MR has its own volume. Aria is on a bit higher level than Reindeer and Caliber, in terms of size.

      Anyway, can we just get agree on a course of action or are we going to have to make another vote?

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    • I'll throw an idea into the space: All the little side stories can be assigned to arc's. Only Caliber and MR are too large and also do not really fit into an arc. These are between PB and PA, and should have an own page. We mention the little side stories into the arc page's, in which they play.

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    • You do realise that MR and Caliber are not the only stories that take place in-between arcs? The stories which could be assigned to an arc have already been assigned. The problem is that a lot of stories actually take place in-between arcs, so we can't really put them together with other arcs.

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    • Gsimenas wrote:
      You do realise that MR and Caliber are not the only stories that take place in-between arcs? ...

      Not really, I know not all. 

      Are some of them are not close enough to an arc to hang this on the end of an Arc?

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    • C933103 wrote:
      e.g. VRMMO Development Tragedy


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    • E.g. Fairy Dance ends in May while Phantom Bullet begins in December. However, Extra Edition takes place in July and The Day After in June. A couple of months is not "close enough"

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    • But of course. I do not mean close in time, I mean useful close. No matter if as days, months or years between.

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    • The problem with that logic is that ALO was revamped at the end of FD. Having new ALO links on the FD arc would be... confusing at best. And on PB it would be just off topic, since barely any ALO content can be linked in PB.

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    • Yes, for example you can append the Extra Edition and The Day After without problems to FD. FD ends with new ALO and new Aincrad. By the way: Non Canon stories I would generally not include - mention at best.

      Edit: You could also append Caliber to PB.

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    • That is a problem. FD mostly refers to the events before the revamp, since most of the things added by the revamp weren't mentioned until after the arc. What logic would it be to have a whole list of Sword Skills on the FD navbar? That would just confuse people.

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    • It is us free to mark these skills etc. in line in the NavBar.

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    • the problem is sword skills are only introduced after the end of what you would call "Fairy Dance" (This apply to both novel, manga, and anime).

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    • @Tron As C9 said, Sword Skills are not part of the Fairy Dance arc. And having them on the bar, as I said, is just unnecessary confusion, since the game did not have any of such skills before the revamp and Kirito dual wielding in the game already confuses people. We don't need to add even more confusion.

      @C9 "Both" can only be used for two items, as far as I remember.

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    • @ Gsi You do it to you harder than necessary. Why do you hang yourself so on to the NavBar. Let the skills from the side stories just away.

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    • The point of the arc pages is the navbar. That's pretty much the main reason we have those pages. And there's actually quite a bit of content that's related to the side stories that are not part of any arc.

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    • ...then the purpose for arc page would be lost.

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    • Then define nevertheless times the target. (In a few words, which I also understand.)

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    • Okay... this conversation is going nowhere... can we PLEASE just decide 1) whether or not are we doing pages for MR and Caliber and 2) are we doing hubs for the other various side stories (posted on their side story pages)

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      • Mother's Rosario - Independent page.
      • Caliber - Independent page.
      • The Celeste Fairy - FD Arc.
      • VRMMO Development Tragedy - discard this thing until we have some other related page.
      • Ceramic Heart - when is this happen?
      • Salvia - FD Arc.
      • There is but one ultimate way - section on page.
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    • @ C9 I agree as far.

      @ Gsi Sorry, you're right. We inflate the thread on here unnecessarily.

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      • Ceramic Heart - according to the timeline, May 18th, 2026; just one month before Alicization.
      • Celeste Fairy was already linked on the FD arc template.
      • Salvia - same as above.
      • I leave the last one to you.
      • Does everyone else agree on making a page for MR and Caliber (the page won't have the term "arc" in it, seeing as the links we use are just Mother's Rosario and Caliber).
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    • btw, would the chapter name 'calib*r' just taken from that fake sword or whatever? 

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    • and i just do a mini template on ceramic heart page for example.

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    • The fake sword was called "Caliburn" with an "n" if I remember correctly. I believe that everyone aside from Reki will get the spelling wrong, since no one on the Japanese side would understand that the spelling was intentionally altered.

      Anyway, back on topic, I would prefer to have those navbars even for side stories in template format, since it otherwise clutters the page.

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    • so there're just mr and cb left

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    • I don't see what input you want but I'll give my opinion.

      MR and Caliber are chronologically seperate from FD so they can't be lopped together no matter what, we could call it the New ALO arc because both take place in ALO after GGO, but this would be unofficial like I do in Seirei Tsukai until the author granted names.

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    • (and are we doing progressive arc now?

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    • We haven't even finished the pages for MR and Caliber yet... And I'm not really sure whether or not we should do a page for Progressive, seeing as it technically takes place during the Aincrad arc.

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    • MR and Cb done. but how about EE&RB?

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    • I guess EE would go under the PB Arc, seeing it leads into it with the ending and all.

      dunno about RB.

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    • RB follow EE's plotline...

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    • C933103 wrote:
      RB follow EE's plotline...

      mm, that's true, guess it should go under PB as well, seeing the time would fit too.

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    • Both of them take place months before the PB and are never memtioned during the arc...

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